Comments on: Some Schmuck Expecting You to Write For Next to Nothing? Hand Him This Brilliant “Designers Who Blog” Post. http://copywriterunderground.com/2007/01/26/some-schmuck-expect-you-to-write-for-next-to-nothing-hand-him-this-brilliant-designers-who-blog-post/ Copywriting Beyond the Words :: The Freelance Writer's Life Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:46:36 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Tom Chandler http://copywriterunderground.com/2007/01/26/some-schmuck-expect-you-to-write-for-next-to-nothing-hand-him-this-brilliant-designers-who-blog-post/comment-page-1/#comment-1122 Tom Chandler Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:07:24 +0000 http://copywriterunderground.com/2007/01/26/some-schmuck-expect-you-to-write-for-next-to-nothing-hand-him-this-brilliant-designers-who-blog-post/#comment-1122 Tom; You touched on the subject of an upcoming post, assuming I ever find the time to write again. I started out in this business when work was harder to find, and most of it resided in the hands of a few companies. I took my beatings at the hands of skilled negotiators - until I read a few books on the subject. I quickly learned the value of techniques like "The Hot Potato," "the Higher Power" and a few others. Great comment, and thanks! Tom;

You touched on the subject of an upcoming post, assuming I ever find the time to write again.

I started out in this business when work was harder to find, and most of it resided in the hands of a few companies. I took my beatings at the hands of skilled negotiators – until I read a few books on the subject.

I quickly learned the value of techniques like “The Hot Potato,” “the Higher Power” and a few others.

Great comment, and thanks!

]]> By: Tom "Bald Dog" Varjan http://copywriterunderground.com/2007/01/26/some-schmuck-expect-you-to-write-for-next-to-nothing-hand-him-this-brilliant-designers-who-blog-post/comment-page-1/#comment-1119 Tom "Bald Dog" Varjan Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:33:33 +0000 http://copywriterunderground.com/2007/01/26/some-schmuck-expect-you-to-write-for-next-to-nothing-hand-him-this-brilliant-designers-who-blog-post/#comment-1119 I think one of the reasons why companies are pushing writers (and other professionals) to do the work cheaper is because they know that many professionals will actually do it. Only a very very few people have the courage to walk away from business that is almost done deal. But I believe we have to train and strengthen our "walk away" muscles, and when it's necessary, we have to cut our losses, which are really good losses. It would become a bad loss if we accepted the gigs at lower fees. And here I'd like to recommend Robert Ringer's nipplepiercingly brilliant book, Winning Through Intimidation. The title is misleading though. A better title would be how to avoid being intimidated. There are some great scenarios in it about negotiating fees. I think one of the reasons why companies are pushing writers (and other professionals) to do the work cheaper is because they know that many professionals will actually do it. Only a very very few people have the courage to walk away from business that is almost done deal.

But I believe we have to train and strengthen our “walk away” muscles, and when it’s necessary, we have to cut our losses, which are really good losses. It would become a bad loss if we accepted the gigs at lower fees.

And here I’d like to recommend Robert Ringer’s nipplepiercingly brilliant book, Winning Through Intimidation. The title is misleading though. A better title would be how to avoid being intimidated. There are some great scenarios in it about negotiating fees.

]]> By: Tom Chandler http://copywriterunderground.com/2007/01/26/some-schmuck-expect-you-to-write-for-next-to-nothing-hand-him-this-brilliant-designers-who-blog-post/comment-page-1/#comment-1084 Tom Chandler Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:54:51 +0000 http://copywriterunderground.com/2007/01/26/some-schmuck-expect-you-to-write-for-next-to-nothing-hand-him-this-brilliant-designers-who-blog-post/#comment-1084 Good luck! Still, because of the "Power of Mystery" the article might have greater impact if the author is never found... Good luck! Still, because of the “Power of Mystery” the article might have greater impact if the author is never found…

]]> By: cat http://copywriterunderground.com/2007/01/26/some-schmuck-expect-you-to-write-for-next-to-nothing-hand-him-this-brilliant-designers-who-blog-post/comment-page-1/#comment-1073 cat Tue, 30 Jan 2007 09:18:57 +0000 http://copywriterunderground.com/2007/01/26/some-schmuck-expect-you-to-write-for-next-to-nothing-hand-him-this-brilliant-designers-who-blog-post/#comment-1073 Good post Tom. I just arrived home after five days away to hits on the NO!SPEC site as well. All due to the Craigslist post with the missing author. In addition, Digg is now involved in the conversation. Hopefully we'll be able to find the original writer of the post. Good post Tom.

I just arrived home after five days away to hits on the NO!SPEC site as well. All due to the Craigslist post with the missing author. In addition, Digg is now involved in the conversation.

Hopefully we’ll be able to find the original writer of the post.

]]> By: Tom Chandler http://copywriterunderground.com/2007/01/26/some-schmuck-expect-you-to-write-for-next-to-nothing-hand-him-this-brilliant-designers-who-blog-post/comment-page-1/#comment-975 Tom Chandler Sat, 27 Jan 2007 04:49:26 +0000 http://copywriterunderground.com/2007/01/26/some-schmuck-expect-you-to-write-for-next-to-nothing-hand-him-this-brilliant-designers-who-blog-post/#comment-975 I have no comment. I have no comment.

]]> By: Carson http://copywriterunderground.com/2007/01/26/some-schmuck-expect-you-to-write-for-next-to-nothing-hand-him-this-brilliant-designers-who-blog-post/comment-page-1/#comment-974 Carson Sat, 27 Jan 2007 04:44:33 +0000 http://copywriterunderground.com/2007/01/26/some-schmuck-expect-you-to-write-for-next-to-nothing-hand-him-this-brilliant-designers-who-blog-post/#comment-974 My parents made me pay my own way through college and assorted partially-completed grad school adventures. I just had six teeth extracted and have additional work slated after a "debridement" (I think that's the word) at the periodontist. Thanks for making me hate my parents, Tom. :-) My parents made me pay my own way through college and assorted partially-completed grad school adventures.

I just had six teeth extracted and have additional work slated after a “debridement” (I think that’s the word) at the periodontist.

Thanks for making me hate my parents, Tom.

:-)

]]> By: Tom Chandler http://copywriterunderground.com/2007/01/26/some-schmuck-expect-you-to-write-for-next-to-nothing-hand-him-this-brilliant-designers-who-blog-post/comment-page-1/#comment-965 Tom Chandler Sat, 27 Jan 2007 00:34:22 +0000 http://copywriterunderground.com/2007/01/26/some-schmuck-expect-you-to-write-for-next-to-nothing-hand-him-this-brilliant-designers-who-blog-post/#comment-965 The real aim of posts like this is to let new writers know you can't eat links, and that $5 "articles" aren't typically considered <i>professional</i> work, much less a living wage. One of my favorite writers said that all you can really give your kids is good teeth and an education. With that in mind, drawing that line in the sand for newer writers (and warning them off the cliches like "there's plenty more work after this job") is the best anyone could hope for. Everything else is up to them. The real aim of posts like this is to let new writers know you can’t eat links, and that $5 “articles” aren’t typically considered professional work, much less a living wage.

One of my favorite writers said that all you can really give your kids is good teeth and an education.

With that in mind, drawing that line in the sand for newer writers (and warning them off the cliches like “there’s plenty more work after this job”) is the best anyone could hope for.

Everything else is up to them.

]]> By: Carson http://copywriterunderground.com/2007/01/26/some-schmuck-expect-you-to-write-for-next-to-nothing-hand-him-this-brilliant-designers-who-blog-post/comment-page-1/#comment-957 Carson Fri, 26 Jan 2007 22:42:39 +0000 http://copywriterunderground.com/2007/01/26/some-schmuck-expect-you-to-write-for-next-to-nothing-hand-him-this-brilliant-designers-who-blog-post/#comment-957 After spending a few years pissing people off and engaging in a never-ending series of arguments about the rate question, I pulled a Chief Joseph and opted to "fight no more forever." I hope I'm not turning my back on that pledge by making one observation... The most important part of your post with respect to the issue of what constitutes a fair wage is: "And then start building a creative practice that offer the potential for a sustained, reasonable living." This is where the $4/500 word crowd and the rest part ways. Not every self-proclaimed writer can do that, will do that, or even knows what that means. Which is why sometimes $4 is probably more than what they deserve, paid by customers who don't need anything more than they get. And I'm stopping here before I start defending certain bad neighborhoods within Writing City again. Good post, though. Those who are going to read it are probably those in the can-do camp, and it's a damn good reminder for 'em. Carson After spending a few years pissing people off and engaging in a never-ending series of arguments about the rate question, I pulled a Chief Joseph and opted to “fight no more forever.”

I hope I’m not turning my back on that pledge by making one observation…

The most important part of your post with respect to the issue of what constitutes a fair wage is:

“And then start building a creative practice that offer the potential for a sustained, reasonable living.”

This is where the $4/500 word crowd and the rest part ways. Not every self-proclaimed writer can do that, will do that, or even knows what that means. Which is why sometimes $4 is probably more than what they deserve, paid by customers who don’t need anything more than they get.

And I’m stopping here before I start defending certain bad neighborhoods within Writing City again.

Good post, though. Those who are going to read it are probably those in the can-do camp, and it’s a damn good reminder for ‘em.

Carson

]]>